VIC  Feedback circuit. PPL Pickup


Pickup coil is directly over the gap in the core.


The pickup is sensing the flux bridge over the gap. If that gap is still saturated with flux during resonance and the core is open then the system is detuned.


The pickup coil is looking for any sign of bridge saturation in the core gap during resonance and if it finds its still saturated it will use the CMOS chips to drive the PLL chip and either change frequency or duty cycle pulse width until the pickup coil senses that the core is closed during resonance.


So it reduces input voltage until the gap is unsaturated and the core is shut down at resonance.


Brilliant engineering Stan Meyer


If you use stainless steel wire in your cell instead of copper wire, if you work out its resistance value per foot, you can wind the plastic plates in stainless steel wire instead of copper and still get the same reactance. 
Meanwhile here is an interesting question:


The pickup coil has the same turns ratio as the secondary and chokes in Stans VIC, the pickup coil is controlling the CMOS and the PLL that controls what frequency the primary is pulsing the VIC at.


The question is, why does the pickup coil need the EXACT turns ratio as the other 3 coils? 

Wouldn't you agree that the turns ratio of the pickup needs to match the turns ratio of the other 3 coils because the PLL needs to know how flux leakage across the core gap effects those coils.


So the PLL circuit will not intervene unless the core saturation is effecting the operation of those coils.


You wouldn't want the PLL to respond to a tiny flux leakage would you? You'd only want it to respond to larger leaks that effect larger coils.


All I will say about this is, do you think the circuit that the feed back coil is feeding the information to that your talking about can handle that kind of coil voltage it will produce if they are the same ratio as the rest of the coils?


Feedback coil will stay in the low voltage range but it could be necessary to let it produce higher voltage output that gets clipped by the anti-parallel diodes so that the circuit receives steeper edges from the feedback coil.


NAV Reply 

The current won't be high or the voltage on the pickup because the PLL adjusts the drive frequency so that the flux density never gets high enough to bridge the gap during resonance.


That is the whole point, keeping the 3 coils isolated from the VIC core during resonance by constant probing and PLL switching thousands of times per second.


The PLL will never allow high voltages. Also, don't forget the pickup is not in the isolated circuit or high voltage zone. The PLL is only switched on during the zero voltage stage of 5Khz and its sniffing the core for flux leakage.


The PLL is only switched on during the zero voltage stage of 5Khz and its sniffing the core for flux leakage.

Sorry if it's the obvious question here, but if I understand you correctly,


the PLL would then be honed in to a zero flux and if it sees any, through the pickup coil, then it initiates changes in frequency and/or pulse width in order to get back to and maintain zero flux during zero voltage of the 5 KHz pulsing,


Could that possibly be in the neckar of woods of what you're saying here?

Thats exactly right. Stan mentions it in his technical brief.


The PLL pings the core at around 5Khz then measures the response in flux density across the gap in the core during V-. If the flux density is too high it keeps changing frequency or pulse width until it reads a satisfactory flux density.


This keep the other 3 coils isolated from the core at resonance. Its very well engineered.


If you wanted to do it manually Lynx, you would use a mosfet hold off circuit connected to the output of the RCA 3055 through a milliamp meter. When you see the flux density rise during V- you can alter the pulse width or frequency manually until you see the meter drop.


very interesting to see your line of thinking here with regards to how the signal from the pickup coil can be recognized and made to scan for optimum performance given that it looks for zero voltage/zero flux, as opposed to max voltage when conditions are ripe for the Meyer goodness in the fuel cell, which is, up to now anyway, what I had in mind for how the signal from the pickup coil should be interpreted and put in good use in the PLL circuit of it all.


Conductivity Chart


Photo out of Stan's estate file of the feedback circuit. In it you will see a letter (H) that I highlighted. This letter has a meaning, would anyone care to elaborate on it's meaning? It's not just a hookup letter to another board, it also represents something else. As I stated in the other thread of Nav's I said that Stan's document is based and written, that the person reading it knows some of the terms, formulas and words used.

in the below schematic it is used to PLL lock into the current flow, because like Ronnie said, the system is always dynamic.


is Tr1 a trigger for some kind of error ?    SMPS chips like TL494 have error except that signal goes right back to 4046 PLL , its also separate core
gpssonar diagram has test jack right there "H"


Yea there is a test jack there to see what (H) is doing on the scope. Care to take a stab at what the letter (H) represents?

It has to do with electromagnetism, it represents the  (Field Intensity).

Field Intensity ( H )
The ampere-turns of mmf specify the magnetizing force, but the intensity of the
magnetic field depends on the length of the coil. At any point in space, a specific
value of ampere-turns must produce less field intensity for a long coil than for a
short coil that concentrates the same mmf. Specifically, the field intensity H in
mks units is
H=ampere-turns of mmf over l meters
This formula is for a solenoid. The fi eld intensity H is at the center of an air core.
For an iron core, H is the intensity through the entire core. By means of units for H ,
the magnetic fi eld intensity can be specifi ed for either electromagnets or permanent
magnets, since both provide the same kind of magnetic fi eld.
The length in Formula (14–2) is between poles. In Fig. 14–2 a , the length is 1 m
between the poles at the ends of the coil. In Fig. 14–2 b , l is also 1 m between the
ends of the iron core. In Fig. 14–2 c , though, l is 2 m between the poles at the ends
of the iron core, although the winding is only 1 m long.
The examples in Fig. 14–2 illustrate the following comparisons:
1. In all three cases, the mmf is 1000 A* t for the same value of IN .
2. In Fig. 14–2 a and b , H equals 1000 A*t/m. In a , this H is the intensity at
the center of the air core; in b , this H is the intensity through the entire
iron core.
3. In Fig. 14–2 c , because l is 2 m, H is 1000⁄2, or 500 A*t/m. This H is the
intensity in the entire iron core.
Units for H
The fi eld intensity is basically mmf per unit of length. In practical units, H is ampereturns
per meter. The cgs unit for H is the oersted, * abbreviated Oe, which equals one
gilbert of mmf per centimeter.

All I am trying to show here is, you can't just read his documents without doing research on everything including something as simple as a letter. It all means something, when you read any of his documents you either have to know these things or you find them yourself.


In over 10 years of research you can see that I have researched even the letters in his documents.


You have to in order to back everything up with facts. This is what it takes to understand everything in order to obtain a working fuel cell. HARD WORK I hope everyone finds this little bit of information useful


Nav Comment

He's monitoring the flux density of the H vector field during resonance because he cannot afford the input impedance to be linked to the load impedance during resonance. His bifilar chokes neutralize the current density but the inductance fields in those chokes is neutralized by the core.



H looks like the feedback signal from the pickup coil that is usually filtered and fed to a pll's phase comparators,

The phase comparators compare the feedback signal frequency & phase to the vco's frequency & phase generating an error correction voltage whenever the two signals are not in lock,
The error correction voltage drives the vco up or down in frequency to regain capture, phase locking the pulser to the resonant frequency of the circuit with only a tiny amount of phase discrepancy.


Look at figure 670 below which is the inductance choke. During resonance we cannot afford the inductance to effect the voltage charge as it leaves the choke 90 degrees out of phase into the cell.


Stan chokes the inductance right at the beginning of self resonance, the inductance field is still in the chokes and still connected to the core so he shunts it back round the core into the primary and spends it with his 220 Ohm resistor.


Once it has been spent then the self resonant circuit can operate in a voltage only field. When the voltage enters the cell tubes the inductance of the tubes is the same 220 Ohm resistance and so the capacitive inductance and capacitive reactance are both the same and it tries to become a series resonant LC network but the diode only allows it to go one way into the cell.


The tubes in Stans cell have to be a 220 Ohms resistance value and I have shown how to achieve this ealier in this thread either through wire or the tubes themselves.

Stan´s is a little bit different from Ruslan´s, Matt, but similar .. Ruslan uses a gain factor of 1 (driver).

Stan´s circuit gives us some insight how he tracked core magnetic field strength behaviour.
1 Meg resistor gives insight about gain of the signal amplifier (positive feedback loop).

Both 10k resistors and anti-parallel diodes tell that it´s a current measurement representing magnetic field strength in the core as Ronnie described. Clipping diodes tell that Stan was interested in the very first moment when current starts to flow. Anti-parallel diodes show that feedback signal is AC.
Estimating 100V peak voltage from the feedback coil giving a max. current of 5 mA thru the diodes at a positive breakthru voltage of 0.7V A33 goes high at the very beginning of the (?triangle?) signal.


 The reason there cannot be high voltage on that coil is because the resistor on the primary does not allow the core to stay open during resonance and the secondary +2 chokes are isolated in what Stan refers to as the 'isolated high voltage zone' in his technical brief. The pickup coil is not in that zone.


Don't forget that the VIC cards had a modification of a 50 Volt 10 microfarad capacitor added in series with one of the 10k ohm resistors. 


Also the second 10k ohm resistor was just jumpered to 5Volts VDD and the second winding of the pick up coil was unused.  Another note, the test jack was not connected to the BNC of the card face plate for this circuit. 


Interesting, so VDD was connected to the middle connector of the feedback coil and so feedback signal was biased to VDD.


that may have been the reason why the capacitor had to be added to cut off the DC bias for the OpAmp.

Maybe the reason was that the feedback signal should be inverted by referencing to VDD?!?

firepinto, can you please add the capacitor and the jumpered resistor to the schematic and show which leg of the feedback coil was not used?


so wheres fig 10 ?
I had a look for data on LM918M , seems obsolete Op Amp , same pin out as 741 etc 
whats with the 1M & 100K resistors connected to test jack ?   a divider



Here is some digging I did on this.

I verified with the estate photos again to be sure I was correct, the capacitor is connected to the top 10k resistor in the schematic.  I also am attaching a pic of the circuit traced crudely by me in  The red is top traces, the blue is bottom traces.  

EDIT:  I drew the polarity backwards on the Capacitor.. its been a long week. lol